And here’s that dichotomy again – one moment I’m comparing Ware to Taylor Swift, and the next, she is regaling me with a tale of being a grateful mum in the crowd at the Eras Tour.

Unlike other pop stars, Ware offers her fans these kinds of intimate glimpses into her “real” life all the time with her podcast Table Manners. On the podcast, Ware and her mother, Lennie, invite guests to their homes where they cook, eat and chat about food – invariably, a good portion of each episode sees Ware and her mother cheerfully bickering about their ingredient choices or their cooking techniques.

“I think the podcast has really helped me be able to feel comfortable with myself and to feel like people know me better. That wasn’t the intention, but I do feel like people have me in their ears, and so you become their friend or their confidant in some way. And I love that.”

In 2021, she launched a second podcast, Is It Normal, which traced her third pregnancy. “That’s something I’m really proud of, because it’s a very small number of people that listen to it,” she says. Funnily enough, it seems the world of podcasting is what allows Ware to straddle her two worlds so effortlessly. “Weirdly, the more people know about me, the more they probably realise I’m actually quite ordinary, and we’re all kind of talking about the same things and having the same problems. Maybe my normalness actually is part of why people like me.” In fact, every now and then, she sees pregnant women give her “knowing looks,” recognising her not as the pearl-bedecked popstar, but as their podcast friend who is helping them through the ups and downs of their pregnancies. She jokes, “And then I go, ‘God, now they think I’m a terrible mother because my son is having an absolute meltdown in the Horniman Museum!’”

Perhaps one of the reasons that Ware is able to slip so easily between the Mother of Pearl and the Jessie who squabbles with her mum in the kitchen or opens up about her children’s’ embarrassing tantrums is that the glamour and grandeur of her current career was far from guaranteed. In fact, there was a time when Ware thought her career would go very differently.

Jessie Ware on music, motherhood and making a difference: “I dip my toe into the pop star world, but I can also really disengage from it.”